Nature Walks, Molasses Floods & Parallel Jefs with Jef Taylor
In this semi-milestone episode, I enter the onefjef multiverse and sit down with… Jef Taylor. We talk about the odd intimacy of sharing an identity, the pretension & justification behind dropping the superfluous f, and what happens when you realize another version of you is out there working at a zoo, documenting Hot Wheels jousting, and looking for little pockets of joy wherever he can find them.
Follow Jef (the other Jef) on Instagram @urbpan, on YouTube at youtube.com/@Swamp_Hobbit, and if you're in the Boston area you can join one of his nature walks at facebook.com/groups/UrbanNatureWalk/
Please show some support for the podcast and get access to some extra content by subscribing to the Patreon page: http://www.patreon.com/onefjef
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/onefjefpod/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@onefjefpodcast
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@onefjef
Email: onefjefpod@gmail.com
You can also call the podcast and leave a voicemail at 1-669-241-5882 and I will probably play it on the air.
Thank you for listening, please do it again, but with a different name.
Onefjef is produced, edited & hosted by Jef Taylor.
Transcript
Jef Taylor.
Speaker:Jef, thank you very much.
Speaker:Thank you Jef.
Speaker:Appreciate it.
Speaker:This is episode twenty of
Speaker:Onefjef.
Speaker:The number twenty represents awakening and higher awareness,
Speaker:the doubling of completion, and the beginning of a new cycle.
Speaker:In tarot.
Speaker:It's the judgment card, a call
Speaker:to rise and transform after
Speaker:enlightenment.
Speaker:Numerologically twenty combines the harmony of two with the
Speaker:infinite potential of zero, symbolizing intuition amplified
Speaker:by the void across cultures.
Speaker:It's linked with clarity.
Speaker:Twenty twenty vision
Speaker:contemplation I Ching's Hexagram
Speaker:twenty and triumph the D20s
Speaker:critical success.
Speaker:It's the number of reflection,
Speaker:renewal, and the moment just
Speaker:before transcendence.
Speaker:Hello my friends.
Speaker:Yes, you heard right.
Speaker:When FGF is about to transcend
Speaker:itself or transcend the
Speaker:podcasting universe, if you
Speaker:will.
Speaker:What does that mean in the world of podcasts?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:All I know is that I am proud to have gotten to twenty episodes
Speaker:of onefjefq.
Speaker:It's kind of fucking amazing.
Speaker:To be perfectly honest with you, twenty episodes kaboom!
Speaker:I wanted to say something about
Speaker:Marc Maron, who just released
Speaker:his last episode just a few days
Speaker:ago here.
Speaker:I started listening to Marc
Speaker:Maron's podcast when he first
Speaker:started.
Speaker:Like his very first month.
Speaker:It was September two thousand and nine.
Speaker:I was living in New York City, in East Harlem.
Speaker:I was working as an assistant editor at Howcast, which, if you
Speaker:don't remember, is that company that made the how to videos
Speaker:before how to videos became ubiquitous on the internet?
Speaker:I didn't particularly like the job, to be honest.
Speaker:It was pretty boring, but it was a day job, and my job before
Speaker:that was working overnights at MTV, which was cool until I
Speaker:started to slowly lose my mind because I was up all night and
Speaker:sleeping during the day.
Speaker:Fortuitously or not, I got laid off after about six months at
Speaker:howcast, and within a year the rest of the internet had caught
Speaker:on to the how to video trend.
Speaker:And the rest of the staff, I believe, or most of the rest of
Speaker:the staff got let go.
Speaker:Their Wikipedia page now says
Speaker:that they are quote unquote
Speaker:dormant.
Speaker:Anyway, I would listen to Marc Maron at this job at my desk to
Speaker:avoid interacting with this woman who was ostensibly my boss
Speaker:and who sat next to me.
Speaker:She was very, um, how do I put this?
Speaker:Challenging to work with, let's say.
Speaker:Anyway, I listened to Marc Maron, so I didn't have to
Speaker:listen to her.
Speaker:And this was two thousand and
Speaker:nine, as I said, very, very
Speaker:early podcasting.
Speaker:So in order to listen, I had to download the podcast at home
Speaker:onto iTunes, and then transfer it to my iPod mini, and then
Speaker:bring that iPod mini to work and listen to it with plugged in
Speaker:Apple EarPods with the volume thing on the cable there.
Speaker:You remember it wasn't so much
Speaker:the interviews, but it was Mark
Speaker:in his monologues before the
Speaker:show that would sometimes go on
Speaker:for a half an hour that I really
Speaker:connected with.
Speaker:He would talk about his anxiety.
Speaker:He would talk about his stalled career.
Speaker:He would talk about his failed relationships.
Speaker:And it all felt very real and
Speaker:very vulnerable and candid in a
Speaker:way that I had never really
Speaker:experienced before.
Speaker:And I felt seen.
Speaker:And it made me feel better.
Speaker:I was also going through a horrible breakup at the time.
Speaker:So maybe that had something to do with it.
Speaker:So for years I listened to every episode.
Speaker:I listened to it at work.
Speaker:I listened to it on the subway on the way home.
Speaker:I remember where I was when I listened to certain episodes.
Speaker:It's kind of crazy how that happens.
Speaker:And then after a while, podcast started to kind of catch on.
Speaker:So I started to stray and listen to other people's podcasts.
Speaker:But I'd always kind of come back to Marc Maron now and again,
Speaker:just to see how he was doing and who his guest was and so forth.
Speaker:And now I have my own podcast, and honestly, it owes a debt of
Speaker:gratitude to Marc Maron for getting the ball rolling, in a
Speaker:sense on these podcast things, for showing what was possible in
Speaker:a podcast format, for exposing himself, flaws and all, and in
Speaker:doing so, making me and other people feel a little less alone.
Speaker:So if you ever hear this, I mean, when you hear this.
Speaker:Thank you, Marc Maron.
Speaker:You'll be missed, and I will
Speaker:gladly fill the void that you
Speaker:have left in the confessional
Speaker:style podcast world that you
Speaker:helped create.
Speaker:Anyway, today's guest is Jef Taylor.
Speaker:Not me, Jef Taylor.
Speaker:I'm always on this podcast.
Speaker:Another Jef Taylor, also with just one F Jef Taylor is a
Speaker:Boston area naturalist, educator, and enthusiast for the
Speaker:small wonders of life, insects, fungi, urban ecology, wildlife,
Speaker:and unexpected corners.
Speaker:He's known to lead nature walks,
Speaker:apply science and practical
Speaker:fields like humane pest
Speaker:management, and engage people
Speaker:via community driven side
Speaker:projects.
Speaker:Blending curiosity, play and ecological awareness.
Speaker:About ten or fifteen years ago, a guy named Jef Taylor friended
Speaker:me on Facebook.
Speaker:We messaged back and forth once or twice.
Speaker:Nice name.
Speaker:Hahaha.
Speaker:You know, that kind of thing.
Speaker:And then a couple of weeks ago, I made a Facebook page for this
Speaker:podcast, which you should all go and join, by the way.
Speaker:Facebook.com.
Speaker:And I invited probably all of my Facebook friends like you do.
Speaker:And Jef Taylor, the other Jef
Speaker:Taylor, he followed it right
Speaker:away.
Speaker:And he left a comment on one of my first posts that said it
Speaker:would feel weird not to listen to this podcast, which I thought
Speaker:was quite clever.
Speaker:So I asked him to come on the show and he gladly agreed.
Speaker:And in thinking about having this conversation, I started
Speaker:thinking about what a name is.
Speaker:How much do we identify with these two words that are so much
Speaker:of us, and how strange it is that there's somebody else out
Speaker:there who has the exact same name as me and experiences the
Speaker:world with the same two words identifying him, and also in
Speaker:this case, another person who wisely chose to remove the
Speaker:superfluous F from Jef.
Speaker:Which is a smart move because the amount of time you save from
Speaker:not having to write that extra f every single time you write your
Speaker:name, it adds up, my friends.
Speaker:It adds up.
Speaker:And it's strange, you know, to hear your name, your full name
Speaker:out of somebody else's mouth.
Speaker:But it's their name too.
Speaker:Like, what does a name hold?
Speaker:Beyond being just like a placeholder, I mean, it's a
Speaker:placeholder for like, an entire narrative in a way.
Speaker:And it's strange that when people who know that Jef Taylor
Speaker:hear the words Jef Taylor, they have an entirely different
Speaker:reaction and like thought process than when people who
Speaker:know me hear Jef Taylor.
Speaker:It would be super confusing if we knew the same people.
Speaker:This episode brought me a lot of
Speaker:joy, and it feels weirdly
Speaker:perfect for the modestly
Speaker:monumental twentieth episode of
Speaker:one FGF.
Speaker:Patreon subscribers new and old.
Speaker:I love and appreciate you.
Speaker:Of course, I love and appreciate
Speaker:all of my listeners, as I've
Speaker:said repeatedly, but I saved
Speaker:just a little bit more for those
Speaker:Patreon subscribers.
Speaker:I'm going to record another bonus episode later this week,
Speaker:so if this episode isn't quite enough Jef Taylor, there will
Speaker:be more coming.
Speaker:And if you aren't a Patreon subscriber and if you want to
Speaker:hear more Jef Taylor, or if you want to just help support the
Speaker:podcast, just go to Patreon.com and sign up for as little as
Speaker:five dollars a month.
Speaker:You can help support this fledgling podcast and also hear
Speaker:me get on my soapbox and ramble from time to time.
Speaker:Yell at the clouds.
Speaker:So on and so forth.
Speaker:Patreon.com.
Speaker:And now it's time to enter the Jef Taylor multiverse.
Speaker:Thank you for being here.
Speaker:Thank you for listening.
Speaker:Here's Jef Taylor and Jef Taylor.
Speaker:Jef Taylor, it's good to meet you.
Speaker:I'm also Jef Taylor.
Speaker:Thanks for coming on the podcast.
Speaker:It's great to finally talk to you.
Speaker:You've been on my radar.
Speaker:I think we've been Facebook
Speaker:friends for quite a few years
Speaker:now.
Speaker:Um, but we've never actually communicated.
Speaker:You're the urban pantheist, right?
Speaker:I was the urban pantheist back in the time that I, uh, that I
Speaker:reached out to every other one, Jef Taylor, to see who we were.
Speaker:And you were the one who reached out to me.
Speaker:I don't remember who actually
Speaker:started our Facebook friendship,
Speaker:but it must have been you in
Speaker:this case.
Speaker:I think so.
Speaker:I think it was a wild hair I got.
Speaker:Where?
Speaker:Back in the early days of the internet.
Speaker:It was a fun thing to do, to search your own name.
Speaker:And then I thought, well, who else has got this name?
Speaker:And, uh, there was you and another guy who.
Speaker:All I know about him is he was a
Speaker:black fella and is a a football
Speaker:fan.
Speaker:And I know who that is in contact with him.
Speaker:You know who he is?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know of him.
Speaker:There's another guy who's a
Speaker:painter as well who has the URL
Speaker:Jef Taylor.
Speaker:Com.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Color fields.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I believe color field painting.
Speaker:So, um, so so tell me, how did you end up being a one, Jef?
Speaker:Did you were you a Jefrey?
Speaker:I am a Jefrey with two F's, as
Speaker:am I. And, uh, you know, the
Speaker:honest answer is that it was a
Speaker:sort of a pretentious
Speaker:affectation of my becoming a
Speaker:college student.
Speaker:Yeah, I need to set myself apart.
Speaker:Exactly the same, dude.
Speaker:Exactly the same.
Speaker:I was a pretentious English major, and I was like, I don't
Speaker:need both F's.
Speaker:It's the same pronunciation.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:And, uh, yeah.
Speaker:And it's worked out because people remember there's so many
Speaker:Jefrey Taylors in the world.
Speaker:Like, if you look in the phone book, I don't know how old you
Speaker:are, but, you know, remember phone books, there'd be like on
Speaker:and on and on Jefrey Taylor's.
Speaker:But when if Jef Taylor's only a handful.
Speaker:So you remember, you remember a one f Jef.
Speaker:My, my brother who is an artist
Speaker:who goes by f Andrew Taylor, uh,
Speaker:likes to say that he won my f
Speaker:off of me in a poker game, and
Speaker:he uses that as his first
Speaker:initial now.
Speaker:Yeah, I used to say I lost mine in the war.
Speaker:Yeah, stupid jokes, but in the end, it was.
Speaker:It was like early internet when I took mine off.
Speaker:And it's worked out really well for like, internet algorithms
Speaker:because like Jef Taylor's, there's so many of them.
Speaker:But Jef Taylor, then you search for that.
Speaker:You know, I get good results.
Speaker:It's tremendous.
Speaker:Um, there's a I don't know if
Speaker:you know, the app iNaturalist,
Speaker:but I use it every day to
Speaker:document, um, you know,
Speaker:biological observations.
Speaker:And my screen name there.
Speaker:It's the first time I've gotten
Speaker:the screen and I wanted and it
Speaker:is just Jef with one F, it's
Speaker:Jef.
Speaker:Oh, nice.
Speaker:Nice.
Speaker:I've always just gone with one f, Jef because I felt like that
Speaker:was my brand.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Anyway, tell me about the other one f Jef.
Speaker:Tell me what the other one f Jef does.
Speaker:I have no idea.
Speaker:I have no idea.
Speaker:Aside from would I do urban stuff?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:What do you do?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I, um, I have been working for the the major, um, city zoo
Speaker:in my area for eighteen years.
Speaker:I am a pest control technician there.
Speaker:Uh, I prefer to lean into what I do when I'm not there, which is
Speaker:lead nature walks, which is more, more fun.
Speaker:But I have devoted, you know,
Speaker:most of my adult life to the zoo
Speaker:field.
Speaker:For a while, I was the president
Speaker:of our local chapter of the
Speaker:American Association of Zoo
Speaker:Keepers.
Speaker:I was very proud of that at the time.
Speaker:Oh, very cool, very cool.
Speaker:What part of the country are you in?
Speaker:I'm in the Boston area.
Speaker:Oh right on.
Speaker:I'm in Columbus, Ohio.
Speaker:Oh, yeah, you're in New York for a while.
Speaker:I was in New York for about ten years, and I moved here about
Speaker:seven years ago or so.
Speaker:And now I'm kind of hoping to
Speaker:leave here, but that's another
Speaker:story.
Speaker:Um, so, uh, the natural, the
Speaker:urban, the the naturalist, the
Speaker:nature walks.
Speaker:You've been doing that for a
Speaker:long time, or is that a new
Speaker:thing?
Speaker:I've been doing it for a long time.
Speaker:The first, uh, official walk,
Speaker:the first one that I documented
Speaker:was November two thousand and
Speaker:three.
Speaker:Oh, wow.
Speaker:And so we had a twentieth
Speaker:anniversary walk in November two
Speaker:years ago.
Speaker:Um, and it's become more, uh, the schedule has become much
Speaker:more regular over time.
Speaker:So now I can I do it every
Speaker:month, the last Sunday of every
Speaker:month.
Speaker:And the interest in doing it has become, uh, interest in
Speaker:participating has grown so much since the pandemic, uh, that
Speaker:I'm, I've basically doubled up where I'm doing, um, I'm
Speaker:averaging two a month.
Speaker:Oh, nice.
Speaker:And what do you focus on?
Speaker:Um, for In the Walks, each event is different.
Speaker:And some of the walks we are
Speaker:just exploring the, the area
Speaker:like.
Speaker:Oh, they opened a new park here.
Speaker:Let's see what that's like.
Speaker:Or sometimes I will hire a guest
Speaker:expert, a marine biologist or a
Speaker:entomologist or something like
Speaker:that.
Speaker:And we'll focus on what their field of study is.
Speaker:And sometimes we do history walks like we did the the site
Speaker:of the Molasses Flood disaster back in January.
Speaker:Um, we did the, you know, the Molasses flood.
Speaker:I know it very well.
Speaker:I'm fascinated by the Great Molasses Disaster.
Speaker:I think it should be.
Speaker:They should make it into a movie.
Speaker:I've been thinking this for years.
Speaker:Why is there?
Speaker:Not really sure.
Speaker:I mean, can you imagine, like,
Speaker:the way the thing that
Speaker:fascinates me.
Speaker:And I've got.
Speaker:There's a book too, that's about it.
Speaker:It's quite dark.
Speaker:Um, yeah.
Speaker:Dark tide.
Speaker:Dark tide is the name of them.
Speaker:It's got to be the name of the movie, right?
Speaker:It's got to be.
Speaker:It's got to be and honest, they really don't need to change much
Speaker:from that book to a screenplay.
Speaker:No, no, it's such a great.
Speaker:But I mean, the effects would
Speaker:have to be, you know, they could
Speaker:do it.
Speaker:But like, the idea of drowning
Speaker:in molasses is so horrific to
Speaker:me.
Speaker:Like, I can't even imagine how bad that would be.
Speaker:You'd be sticky.
Speaker:Which I don't really like, being like syrup and everything.
Speaker:I like having sticky stuff on my fingers.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So, like to me, that seems like the most horrible way to die,
Speaker:which I think would enhance the movie, frankly, because it would
Speaker:bring some terror to it, because it would be a very slow, you
Speaker:know, the slowest moving.
Speaker:I can already see the trailer, you know.
Speaker:Oh, yeah.
Speaker:It was the slowest moving wave.
Speaker:How tall was that?
Speaker:That wave of molasses.
Speaker:Like ten or twenty feet tall, I think.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It was like two stories tall.
Speaker:Yeah, right.
Speaker:It was a massive.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:It's it's strange that we both.
Speaker:You're like, the only other
Speaker:person I think I've ever talked
Speaker:to who's known of the molasses
Speaker:disaster.
Speaker:Um, and I wonder if it's because we have the same name.
Speaker:Um, what element of nature, what
Speaker:brought you to doing the nature
Speaker:walks?
Speaker:Was there something in
Speaker:particular about nature, like
Speaker:mushrooms or birds or, you know,
Speaker:whatever?
Speaker:Or is it just the general?
Speaker:So all my life, I've been the kind of little boy who plays in,
Speaker:in, uh, tide pools or flips over logs to look for salamanders and
Speaker:and centipedes and stuff.
Speaker:So that's sort of that's my, my wheelhouse is little things that
Speaker:I can hold up close and look at.
Speaker:And at that time, I was working
Speaker:for the Audubon Society as a
Speaker:wildlife caretaker, taking care
Speaker:of hawks and owls, education,
Speaker:animals that couldn't be
Speaker:released.
Speaker:Oh. Very cool.
Speaker:And so I knew a lot of birders, and I knew I knew some
Speaker:entomologists and stuff.
Speaker:And the first walk was a bit of a fiasco because everybody was
Speaker:interested in something else.
Speaker:And so trying to keep everybody
Speaker:together was completely
Speaker:impossible.
Speaker:The birders stopped and were
Speaker:looking at one bird for twenty
Speaker:minutes trying to figure out if
Speaker:it was a Swainson's thrush or a
Speaker:hermit thrush.
Speaker:Of course.
Speaker:And so having having it be a little more focused works has
Speaker:turned out to work a lot better.
Speaker:And what's it like to work in the zoo?
Speaker:You've worked in zoos for a long time.
Speaker:What's that like?
Speaker:I've never even imagined working in a zoo.
Speaker:You know, the the thing that you imagine is, is very true, which
Speaker:is you feel honored to be around these animals all the time.
Speaker:Sure, sure.
Speaker:Um, and I've been, you know, a working guy for so long that I
Speaker:have to remind myself of that sometimes where I'm just, like,
Speaker:wandering around angry that I. That I have to work in order to
Speaker:maintain health insurance.
Speaker:Um, sure.
Speaker:And then I have to, like, slap myself up the side of the head
Speaker:and say, like you, you tried to get this very hard, you know?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I was working in a warehouse,
Speaker:you know, I was an art school
Speaker:dropout when I started working
Speaker:with animals.
Speaker:And I decided this was going to be the way, you know.
Speaker:And so I have to remind myself
Speaker:that I'm where I am because I, I
Speaker:tried to get there and that I
Speaker:can't.
Speaker:I can't let bad days get me down.
Speaker:Yeah, well, I went to art school
Speaker:and I didn't drop out, and I
Speaker:have a shit load of student loan
Speaker:debt.
Speaker:So, you know, one version of Jef Taylor and the other
Speaker:version of Jef Taylor.
Speaker:Um, how do you feel about, uh, like like the ethics of zoos?
Speaker:How do you where do you stand on that kind of thing?
Speaker:Like, do you feel like, uh, I
Speaker:find zoos kind of like it
Speaker:depends on the zoo, of course,
Speaker:like San Diego, which I haven't
Speaker:been to, apparently, is like,
Speaker:you know, the, the, the best in
Speaker:terms of, like, the habitats and
Speaker:all that.
Speaker:But I've gone like the Cleveland
Speaker:Zoo I've been to, and it's just
Speaker:it makes me somewhat sad because
Speaker:the animals don't necessarily
Speaker:often.
Speaker:I mean, it's getting better, I think.
Speaker:But I still feel like the
Speaker:animals don't necessarily often
Speaker:seem thrilled about their
Speaker:existence.
Speaker:I think any adult going to a zoo is going to be sad after a while
Speaker:because as as great as the.
Speaker:Yeah, I know right?
Speaker:No, as great as the care is that these animals are getting.
Speaker:You know, the thing that you want to see about animals.
Speaker:You want to see an eagle soar.
Speaker:You want to see, you know, hoofed animals running in packs.
Speaker:And in order to actually take care of these kind of animals,
Speaker:they have to be in you have to be able to reliably get your
Speaker:hands on them, you know, have the veterinary team get their
Speaker:hands on them and stuff.
Speaker:And so they're never going to unless you have something like
Speaker:the big elephant sanctuaries where the elephants wander
Speaker:around and they're smart enough to go where you want them to.
Speaker:Um, I think I think I fully
Speaker:understand why people feel that
Speaker:way about zoos, because it is
Speaker:just sad to see animals unable
Speaker:to to freely do what they they
Speaker:do.
Speaker:But on the other hand, it is
Speaker:it's a kind of science museum
Speaker:where you get to see animal
Speaker:behavior that you would not be
Speaker:able to.
Speaker:Um, the thing I like to say to
Speaker:people is, how would you ever
Speaker:believe that a giant anteater
Speaker:was a real thing in this day and
Speaker:age?
Speaker:Unless you could actually go and look at it.
Speaker:Right, right, right.
Speaker:It looks made up.
Speaker:It does not look like a real thing.
Speaker:And so being in its presence is, is pretty awe inspiring.
Speaker:And so, I mean, don't get me,
Speaker:don't get me started about the
Speaker:platypus.
Speaker:That's the old one.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Right, right, right.
Speaker:So, yeah, having having that
Speaker:kind of access, you know, the
Speaker:whole point of the zoos now is
Speaker:that they're supposed to inspire
Speaker:conservation ethos.
Speaker:Um, and that's a tricky tightrope to walk, because the
Speaker:people that are that lean that way are going to feel bad about
Speaker:seeing animals in captivity.
Speaker:But the kids who don't necessarily have a have all of
Speaker:those preconceptions yet It.
Speaker:They can be inspired.
Speaker:They can be, you know, super excited to see a zebra or
Speaker:gorilla or whatever it is that is that is the thing that
Speaker:connects with them.
Speaker:And so those are the kind of connections zoos are making.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And then a double edged sword in a way.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And the other thing that I think
Speaker:about a lot is we didn't invent
Speaker:zoos today to be conservation
Speaker:organizations.
Speaker:You know, we inherited zoos from the late nineteenth century,
Speaker:early twentieth century, and they existed for a different
Speaker:reason then the the the thought was great American cities should
Speaker:have a place where humans can go look at animals.
Speaker:And that's not it's not the right ethos anymore.
Speaker:But the zoos have been operating for a little over a century.
Speaker:And so you have to keep the
Speaker:institution going, but you have
Speaker:to change the, the, the, the
Speaker:goal of the institution is, is
Speaker:different.
Speaker:And and that transformation,
Speaker:everything at a zoo takes
Speaker:forever because they're huge
Speaker:organizations with tons of
Speaker:bureaucracy.
Speaker:So that transformation has taken almost a whole century.
Speaker:But I think we're we're at that place.
Speaker:Somebody said if zoos didn't
Speaker:exist, we would have to invent
Speaker:them because there will be a
Speaker:need at some point for, you
Speaker:know, these, uh, a lot of the
Speaker:animals we have are critically
Speaker:endangered.
Speaker:Right, right, right.
Speaker:So will there be gorillas twenty years from now?
Speaker:We have insurance populations of
Speaker:these very endangered animals,
Speaker:but we also have things like
Speaker:prairie dogs that aren't
Speaker:endangered, that people just
Speaker:want to look at them because
Speaker:they're cute.
Speaker:Right, right, right.
Speaker:They're very cute.
Speaker:I was just out in, uh, South Dakota and saw a bunch of them.
Speaker:They're very cute.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So. That's good to hear.
Speaker:I just posted the match number
Speaker:six in season eight and didn't
Speaker:get the engagement that I
Speaker:wanted.
Speaker:Um, yeah.
Speaker:These are inspired.
Speaker:Uh, another another artist and an actor named Aaron Yonda
Speaker:created Junkyard Joust during the pandemic, and I was just
Speaker:inspired by it.
Speaker:I thought, this is great fun and started doing my my own fan
Speaker:version of it.
Speaker:For people who don't know what
Speaker:it is, tell tell people like
Speaker:what exactly?
Speaker:This.
Speaker:This exactly is.
Speaker:So it's a game where you send Hot Wheels cars down a track and
Speaker:they smash into one another.
Speaker:Uh, there are teams and For each.
Speaker:At the end of the round, each car that is still upright
Speaker:continues on to the next round, but the ones that are sideways
Speaker:or upside down do not.
Speaker:And so you gradually eliminate
Speaker:cars until you have your
Speaker:winners.
Speaker:So I just stumbled upon these
Speaker:and I was like, wow, there's a
Speaker:this is I mean, it was one of
Speaker:the strangest things I've ever
Speaker:seen.
Speaker:I have never heard of this before.
Speaker:And I was just like, it was kind
Speaker:of mesmerizing just watching
Speaker:these cars slowly slam into each
Speaker:other.
Speaker:There was something truly.
Speaker:And your commitment to it was
Speaker:the other impressive part,
Speaker:because you were very committed
Speaker:to it.
Speaker:There was a lot of them out there.
Speaker:You were putting them out like,
Speaker:I think one every day or one
Speaker:every other day for a while or
Speaker:something, but it was
Speaker:impressive.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So mine is called Backyard Joust.
Speaker:And yeah, if I didn't have, uh, a full time job and an all
Speaker:consuming hobby, um, this other hobby, I would be able to do a
Speaker:video a day.
Speaker:But as it is, I'm lucky to to get out, um, three in a week or
Speaker:three every two weeks.
Speaker:Right now.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:It should be my winter hobby since I'm not doing as much, uh,
Speaker:during the the summer and fall, I'm hired by the Audubon Society
Speaker:to do mushroom walks.
Speaker:And so I do a lot of mushroom
Speaker:walks, and that's taken up a ton
Speaker:of my, my time, which is also
Speaker:great.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's awesome.
Speaker:Mushrooms are fascinating.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:What were you going to go to art school for?
Speaker:I initially was going to be a sculptor.
Speaker:Um, I come from a small farm town in northern Connecticut and
Speaker:got to Boston.
Speaker:You know, my my eyes widened by the big city.
Speaker:And, uh, for a hot minute I
Speaker:thought it was going to be a
Speaker:filmmaking major.
Speaker:And, um, I got to see things like glass blowing and all of
Speaker:these wonderful things.
Speaker:That was a photography major for
Speaker:a year and settled into a thing
Speaker:called studio for Interrelated
Speaker:Media, which was a kind of
Speaker:self-guided.
Speaker:Um, it's where at the time,
Speaker:because technology was, you
Speaker:know, this is nineteen eighty
Speaker:seven.
Speaker:Yeah, the technology at the time.
Speaker:So any computer artist or video
Speaker:artists or anybody that didn't
Speaker:quite fit into, um, anything as
Speaker:technologically advanced as like
Speaker:so there was film, but there was
Speaker:no video.
Speaker:And so people who wanted to do video art went to SIM, but also
Speaker:performance art, lots of performance art and event
Speaker:planning and stuff like that.
Speaker:And I ended up publishing the school comic book and doing that
Speaker:for for a bunch of years.
Speaker:And I did some performance art and some fiction writing and
Speaker:then reading those aloud.
Speaker:It's interesting to me that Jef
Speaker:Taylor seemed to be like the
Speaker:one.
Speaker:Jef.
Speaker:I think it's the pretense of
Speaker:taking the other f off that we
Speaker:seem to be drawn to the arts
Speaker:like.
Speaker:I just think it's interesting.
Speaker:So like, it's one of my questions going into this was
Speaker:like, is there a connection between us in some bizarre way,
Speaker:aside from the label that we have for ourselves?
Speaker:Right, that we've chosen in a way and I don't know about.
Speaker:Yeah, I think there is.
Speaker:And the other and there's another Jef Taylor out there
Speaker:who's an artist as well.
Speaker:So it's an interesting thing.
Speaker:I don't know that the Jef Taylor who's into basketball or
Speaker:whatever it is, is necessarily connected to us in that way.
Speaker:But who knows?
Speaker:Maybe I should talk to him.
Speaker:Maybe I should make a whole nother one.
Speaker:Jef podcast, which is just interviews with with Onef Jef
Speaker:Taylor or something like that.
Speaker:Maybe that maybe I should just do a spin off, a spin off
Speaker:podcast that is just interviewing all the Onef Jefs
Speaker:in the world.
Speaker:I love it, but it's interesting though, like, because your name
Speaker:is such an intimate part of who you are as a human being, and to
Speaker:know that, like we have the I mean, aside from our middle
Speaker:name, I don't use my middle name very often, but exact same name.
Speaker:Like, do you have any issues with the Onef Jef?
Speaker:Like going to Starbucks or whatever?
Speaker:And you're like, Jef and you're
Speaker:not bothering to tell them it's
Speaker:onef because nobody's going to
Speaker:know you.
Speaker:Just you just accept that they're going to do two F's.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, you know, what's fascinating to me is getting emails and.
Speaker:Oh, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I sign my emails.
Speaker:You know, I'm an old dude, so I, like, write my email and then
Speaker:write Jef with one f. Sure.
Speaker:And, and it's a real litmus test on the other person as to
Speaker:whether they catch up and and and spell my name correctly.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And there are people that I've worked with for, you know,
Speaker:almost twenty years that just haven't caught it.
Speaker:It's amazing to me.
Speaker:And you can't be like, uh, excuse me, uh, but I spell my
Speaker:name with one.
Speaker:If you don't want to be that guy.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You want to double down on the pretension?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:It took my mom a while to to do the one f thing.
Speaker:She didn't quite like it at first, but then after a while, I
Speaker:don't remember when it was.
Speaker:I saw her write my name and she wrote Jef, and I was like, oh,
Speaker:she's accepted it.
Speaker:She's accepted me.
Speaker:You know, that's funny.
Speaker:I remember my my dad accepting it too.
Speaker:And that was like, oh, that's good.
Speaker:Yeah, he's right.
Speaker:At first it was like, what the hell are you doing?
Speaker:What is this?
Speaker:Right, right.
Speaker:Do you ever make the joke about
Speaker:how you pronounce your name a
Speaker:little differently.
Speaker:Like just you clip the F at the end.
Speaker:It's not Jef, it's just Jef.
Speaker:You never know.
Speaker:Maybe that's just me.
Speaker:I've heard other people say that.
Speaker:Say, Jef at me.
Speaker:How do you how do you feel about the how do you feel about
Speaker:Joffrey's, the GE clan?
Speaker:Apparently that was almost how my name was spelled.
Speaker:Oh, you dodged the bullet there, bro.
Speaker:You dodged the bullet.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:There's some story that I don't quite remember.
Speaker:With my mom on drugs and my dad in the room, and they're having
Speaker:to talk about how this kid's name is going to be spelled,
Speaker:and, yeah, I, I squeaked through with the, with the, uh, the, the
Speaker:Jef, the J spelling.
Speaker:I've only met one one G Jef.
Speaker:And I thought that was really strange.
Speaker:Do you think that it was because
Speaker:of the drugs or in spite of the
Speaker:drugs that they went with the G.
Speaker:The Jefrey with the J. Yeah,
Speaker:I'm not sure on that aspect of
Speaker:the story.
Speaker:Um huh.
Speaker:That's interesting.
Speaker:Um, but either way, I do like that that drugs were involved.
Speaker:I think that that makes it a do do.
Speaker:Do you know what kind of drugs were involved?
Speaker:Um, you know, whatever, whatever they gave mothers for childbirth
Speaker:in nineteen sixty.
Speaker:Oh, I see.
Speaker:They weren't, like, doing Quaaludes or something.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:I'm imagining they're on Quaaludes in the hospital.
Speaker:Yeah, right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:The picture's a little clear now.
Speaker:Fair enough.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Uh, how old are you, Jef?
Speaker:If you don't mind me asking, I'm fifty one.
Speaker:I'm fifty six.
Speaker:Yeah, I was born in sixty nine.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:I think most of the one of
Speaker:Jef's are going to be about our
Speaker:same.
Speaker:Because Jefrey wasn't the most popular name around like that.
Speaker:Like sixty eight or sixty eight to seventy three or so was about
Speaker:the pocket of Jefrey being a very popular name, but it's not
Speaker:really a popular name anymore.
Speaker:Did you go through, um, having
Speaker:lots of other Jef's in your
Speaker:classes and for sure, and having
Speaker:to figure out ways to, to, uh,
Speaker:differentiate them.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, that was the theater kid, so it wasn't very hard.
Speaker:Like I was the nerdy theater kid in high school, and I didn't.
Speaker:I still had two apps then, so it was a different time for me.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But, um.
Speaker:But.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Do you have any brothers or sisters?
Speaker:I have my one older brother, the F Andrew Taylor.
Speaker:Oh, right.
Speaker:Right, right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Oh, but no sisters.
Speaker:That would be weird if you had
Speaker:the sister with the same name as
Speaker:mine.
Speaker:That'd be.
Speaker:That'd be.
Speaker:That'd be scary.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, the metaverse would get even more bizarre, you know?
Speaker:I wonder if there's a world in
Speaker:which we could actually have,
Speaker:like, a convention of Jef
Speaker:Taylor's.
Speaker:I wonder how many we could find.
Speaker:Because I looked on Facebook and there's quite a few.
Speaker:And I wonder how hard it would be to get a convention and,
Speaker:like, you could film it.
Speaker:It'd be the most interesting.
Speaker:Uh, like the weirdest.
Speaker:It would be, like, on This American Life or something.
Speaker:You know, the convention of Jef Taylor's one f Jef Taylor's.
Speaker:It sounds fabulous.
Speaker:You'd have to figure out where the the sort of the density was.
Speaker:And plane.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Where's the density?
Speaker:I would imagine it's an East Coast thing more than a West
Speaker:Coast thing, but I could be totally wrong about that.
Speaker:But yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Because I think I'm friends with maybe two others on on Facebook.
Speaker:And honestly, I was so happy
Speaker:when you, like, followed the
Speaker:podcast page and then and then
Speaker:you.
Speaker:I don't know what you commented on the podcast or something, or
Speaker:this should be my favorite podcast comment was and then I
Speaker:was like, you should come on.
Speaker:And immediately you're like, yeah, I'll come on.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Then I thought about it and I
Speaker:was like, that's the funniest
Speaker:thing I could possibly do for
Speaker:this podcast.
Speaker:Have you ever gotten any emails meant for me?
Speaker:That's a good question.
Speaker:Um, yeah.
Speaker:I'm trying to think we do have a
Speaker:pretty similar Gmail address, I
Speaker:think.
Speaker:Oh we do.
Speaker:Um, every once in a while, I'll
Speaker:see your name somewhere that'll
Speaker:pop up.
Speaker:And I'm like, wait, that's not me.
Speaker:Yeah, mine's just Jef Taylor at gmail.
Speaker:Yeah, mine uses my middle initial, middle initial the old
Speaker:middle initial C. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:And I think I may have added that in because of you.
Speaker:I think I may have said, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to be
Speaker:Jef C Taylor for from now on because I was first.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, I was first.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Honestly, like I've had people offer me because I got one from
Speaker:the website and I got it on all the all all of the social
Speaker:medias, uh, except for one or two, but, uh, yeah, I'm pretty.
Speaker:I try to get it right away
Speaker:because I've had somebody try to
Speaker:buy one from me for like three
Speaker:thousand dollars at one point,
Speaker:and I was like, yeah, I don't
Speaker:know.
Speaker:No, it's not your property.
Speaker:No, no, it's I need more than that.
Speaker:I would need like thirty I would sell it for I think maybe.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Can I tell you I attempted a
Speaker:podcast, um, I made twelve
Speaker:episodes of a podcast called
Speaker:Species of Least Concern, where
Speaker:I was trying to basically make a
Speaker:podcast version of the Urban
Speaker:Pantheist zine or talk about,
Speaker:oh, cool.
Speaker:Yeah, weird animals and how nature interacts with humans and
Speaker:that kind of stuff.
Speaker:And I would introduce myself as one FGF because I was nervous
Speaker:about using, um, using my, my last name on it, but sure, sure,
Speaker:this is distinctive enough.
Speaker:And so I actually referred to
Speaker:myself as one FGF on those
Speaker:twelve episodes.
Speaker:Um, yeah, that's about as far as most podcasts get to about eight
Speaker:or twelve is like, I think ninety percent of all the
Speaker:podcasts like pit are out at that many episodes.
Speaker:Um, but yeah, I'm only doing I've only been able to continue
Speaker:to do this because I'm unemployed at the moment.
Speaker:So, um, so yeah, I'm, I think this will be twenty.
Speaker:I think this will be the twentieth episode.
Speaker:Twentieth episode spectacular with Jef interviews Jef.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, it's a good a good milestone.
Speaker:Um, how did you get involved in mushrooms?
Speaker:I'm always interested in mushrooms.
Speaker:I've seen the Paul Stamets documentary, um, and, you know,
Speaker:have taken them.
Speaker:So. Yeah, when I was working at
Speaker:the, um, Audubon Society, uh, I
Speaker:was surrounded by all of these
Speaker:teacher naturalists.
Speaker:You know, I was taking care of the animals.
Speaker:They would come and they'd take
Speaker:the animals and do programs with
Speaker:them.
Speaker:But there were all kinds of
Speaker:programs that they would do,
Speaker:including, um, lichens and fungi
Speaker:and stuff.
Speaker:And there was nobody at my
Speaker:nature center that was great
Speaker:with mushrooms, but I, I sort of
Speaker:made myself into that person and
Speaker:started training the other
Speaker:teacher naturalists on
Speaker:mushrooms.
Speaker:I just jumped into them like I my the thing that I tell
Speaker:everybody is they're just as fascinating as insects, but they
Speaker:don't for sure.
Speaker:You know, they hold still for photos.
Speaker:And yeah, I've never looked back.
Speaker:It's been a it's been a really
Speaker:wonderful thing that that I feel
Speaker:like I hit some new height this
Speaker:year with the total number of,
Speaker:of mushroom walks that I was
Speaker:hired for.
Speaker:I have a couple of private clients that hire me every year.
Speaker:Um, but most of my stuff is done
Speaker:through the Audubon Society, and
Speaker:I feel like mushrooms or
Speaker:mushrooms are blowing up to,
Speaker:like, they've become much more
Speaker:popular in the last five to ten
Speaker:years.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, they are some kind of cultural zeitgeist that,
Speaker:that, um, that got hit and it coincided a little bit with the
Speaker:Stamets movie you were talking about, and for sure.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, and and the pandemic, you know, anything where you can,
Speaker:you know, spend time somewhat socially and outdoors that
Speaker:really helped blow things up.
Speaker:Yeah, I think the psychedelic
Speaker:mushrooms as well was part of it
Speaker:as well.
Speaker:The, the the more people trying those and more people talking
Speaker:about those and books being written about those.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, I think it's a confluence,
Speaker:but, uh, but yeah, yeah, I have
Speaker:a good friend who just has, like
Speaker:a whole Instagram account that's
Speaker:just taking pictures of weird
Speaker:mushrooms that she finds in the
Speaker:woods.
Speaker:So I wonder if I know them.
Speaker:The mushroom community is is
Speaker:pretty interconnected and
Speaker:tangled.
Speaker:Hers was called, like, intergalactic mushrooms or
Speaker:something like that.
Speaker:All right, I'm writing it down.
Speaker:The whole name.
Speaker:What, uh, what brings you joy, Jef Taylor?
Speaker:What brings me joy?
Speaker:Increasingly, it is getting
Speaker:outside with a group of people
Speaker:and and leading them, um, you
Speaker:know, usually, like I said, this
Speaker:year it's been a lot of mushroom
Speaker:walks.
Speaker:But anytime that I'm that I'm
Speaker:doing my event series, my nature
Speaker:walk series, that's been super
Speaker:important.
Speaker:You know, it's been honestly hard to to find joy.
Speaker:Just kind of like banging your head against the onslaught of,
Speaker:of terrible news and, and, uh, you know, the tidal wave of
Speaker:fascism across the country.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:Put your phone down, Jef.
Speaker:Put your phone down.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:So if I can get out there.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:So if I can get out there, I
Speaker:guess what the kids say is touch
Speaker:grass.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so for those two hours, that's the only thing I know
Speaker:about is, like, we're all here together, and I'm showing you
Speaker:what I think is cool about usually something that nobody
Speaker:thinks about, like slime molds or little tiny cup fungi or
Speaker:salamanders or whatever it happens to be wasps.
Speaker:I love, I love that it's like.
Speaker:It's like you're.
Speaker:It's like almost a zen space
Speaker:that you can be in where that's
Speaker:the only thing that is at that
Speaker:time.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:Like, the outside world stops existing in a way, and you're
Speaker:just locked in to the to the moment of, uh, teaching these
Speaker:people about random nature.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:It's very similar to when I was
Speaker:doing more, uh, you know, visual
Speaker:art that when you lock into it,
Speaker:I'm sure the same thing happens
Speaker:to you.
Speaker:And and, you know, you forget to
Speaker:eat, and eight hours goes by and
Speaker:you're, like, enthralled with
Speaker:what you're doing, and you look
Speaker:up and you're like, oh, it's
Speaker:dark out.
Speaker:What's going on?
Speaker:Yeah, that's the goal, right?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:To get into that that headspace.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker:I find that it's harder to get into the older that I get.
Speaker:Or maybe it's just I think I think the phones have a lot to
Speaker:do with it.
Speaker:I think that it was much easier to to do before all this
Speaker:distraction, and I'm really struggling with it lately
Speaker:because I feel like like my attention span has really, I've
Speaker:noticed, has plummeted precipitously, uh, in the last
Speaker:five to ten years, and I don't quite care for it.
Speaker:Um, and I but I don't I don't know, it's hard because these
Speaker:devices are so addictive and, um, the screens are so are so
Speaker:pretty and colorful and they're meant to be.
Speaker:But then you also think about the fact that the people who
Speaker:invented these devices don't let their kids use them.
Speaker:So it's like, um, you know, um,
Speaker:so, uh, but really, you know,
Speaker:this is, I think, the cause of
Speaker:when we talk about how bad
Speaker:things are getting, I mean, I
Speaker:think the finger can be pointed
Speaker:squarely at technology and the
Speaker:algorithms that are, uh,
Speaker:dividing us even further, um,
Speaker:dividing us further and further
Speaker:apart.
Speaker:I've gone on this soapbox too many times on this podcast, so I
Speaker:need to shut the fuck up.
Speaker:But, um, but you know what I mean?
Speaker:I absolutely do, and I think the the problem really is the
Speaker:motivations behind the technology are not like, how can
Speaker:we make a better world?
Speaker:How can we, you know, remember the beginning of the internet?
Speaker:Everybody talked about all of the information of the world
Speaker:will be at your fingertips.
Speaker:And that's kind of true.
Speaker:You know, I use Wikipedia.
Speaker:I pay for Wikipedia, I donate to Wikipedia, I use iNaturalist, I
Speaker:donate to iNaturalist.
Speaker:So like there are these information sources out there
Speaker:and I'm constantly on my phone.
Speaker:But the amount of time I spend just looking at garbage that is
Speaker:designed to keep my eyeballs on it and keep me angry and
Speaker:interacting with it is is.
Speaker:Yeah, it's the endless scroll.
Speaker:Indefensible.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And the reality of of it is also that like, you know, they're
Speaker:monetizing anger and anxiety.
Speaker:And that's really problematic
Speaker:because that's what people want
Speaker:to click on is things that make
Speaker:them angry and anxious for some
Speaker:reason.
Speaker:It's like a weird human nature thing that really troubles me.
Speaker:But, um, but yeah, I, I was in politics for four and a half
Speaker:years, so I think I'm fairly numb to it all at this point.
Speaker:Um, in what way were you in politics?
Speaker:I was working at it was, you know, the Lincoln Project.
Speaker:It was an anti-Trump organization.
Speaker:It was all a super PAC run by former Republicans who are
Speaker:trying to get rid of, um, you know, Trump back in.
Speaker:We started in twenty twenty.
Speaker:I got hired in the late twenty middle of twenty twenty.
Speaker:Similar to the Midas.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, the Midas touch took our
Speaker:took took Lincoln Project's
Speaker:basically Mo and just did the
Speaker:same thing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Gotcha.
Speaker:Um, and they're actually doing it better than Lincoln Project
Speaker:is now between you and me.
Speaker:But it's pretty sad.
Speaker:Anyway.
Speaker:Yeah, it really is.
Speaker:Um, but, uh, but, yeah, I got laid off from there in January,
Speaker:which is generally really a good thing because it's toxic, but,
Speaker:um, but yeah, I made videos like wacky, like wacky recuts of
Speaker:Donald Trump stuff.
Speaker:Like, I would do, like, funny, weird, wacky videos making fun
Speaker:of the Republican Party.
Speaker:But now looking back, I feel like I feel like I was more like
Speaker:at the time.
Speaker:I think in twenty twenty it was really fun.
Speaker:But then as this election came forward and after he won again,
Speaker:I was like, oh, maybe I was part of the problem here, you know?
Speaker:Oh, God.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, honestly, you think about it.
Speaker:And I was like, you know, the
Speaker:narratives we were putting out
Speaker:were this these narratives of,
Speaker:like, these Trump supporters are
Speaker:stupid idiots, blah, blah, blah,
Speaker:blah, blah.
Speaker:And I don't think that's a
Speaker:healthy narrative to be putting
Speaker:out.
Speaker:I don't think that's the right angle at all.
Speaker:I don't think that's helping anybody by.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Um, putting people down and
Speaker:saying that people are racist
Speaker:and stupid, but but, you know, I
Speaker:don't work there anymore, so,
Speaker:um, I don't have to worry about
Speaker:it.
Speaker:It's not practical either, because it backs those people
Speaker:into a corner and all.
Speaker:They just cling to the unhealthy
Speaker:things that they're they're
Speaker:already on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, it's, um, it's a profoundly bizarre time.
Speaker:I'm thinking about moving to, uh, Mexico or Guatemala or
Speaker:something, because I can't with this America anymore.
Speaker:Um, it's like, what's what's keeping me here anymore?
Speaker:You know, America used to be
Speaker:this place where it was like,
Speaker:oh, there's so many great
Speaker:things, but now I'm thinking
Speaker:about it.
Speaker:I'm like, I'm paying so much for health insurance.
Speaker:I'm paying so much for everything.
Speaker:Like, what am I doing here?
Speaker:You know what's I mean?
Speaker:Aside from friends and family, what's keeping me?
Speaker:You know, I feel like my wife and I are on this tightrope
Speaker:where if things get better, then we'll fall over into, you know,
Speaker:retirement in America in ten years and will be happy probably
Speaker:living in Southern California someplace where, um, where we
Speaker:don't hate the weather.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:But if things continue going the way we're going, uh, she happens
Speaker:to be a Canadian citizen.
Speaker:Oh. Well done.
Speaker:So falling over into onto that
Speaker:side is, you know, where I hate
Speaker:the weather, but the, you know,
Speaker:they they just in Canada just
Speaker:now made, uh, uh, school
Speaker:lunches, universal school
Speaker:lunches permanent.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:They're doing a lot of things that we should be doing here.
Speaker:I mean, health care, I mean health care and all the things.
Speaker:But, yeah, I'd be there already if I were you, to be honest.
Speaker:But, like, I get it, the weather is tricky.
Speaker:Um, but Canada's Canada is also a beautiful country.
Speaker:Like, I was up there a couple of
Speaker:years ago, and like, in Calgary
Speaker:and Banff and, boy, uh, it's
Speaker:something to be said for the
Speaker:Canadian Rockies.
Speaker:Almost better than the American Rockies, to be honest.
Speaker:That's the one part I haven't been to.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Oh, I recommend it.
Speaker:How do you imagine that this
Speaker:would ever return to normal,
Speaker:though?
Speaker:That's the thing that I always ask myself.
Speaker:Is it like, I think it feels too far gone to me at this point,
Speaker:but maybe I'm just too cynical, but I generally am not.
Speaker:I'm not cynical enough in this
Speaker:instance this year, because I
Speaker:didn't think it was going to get
Speaker:this crazy.
Speaker:I don't think going back to normal as possible, I am.
Speaker:I am hopeful in my better days
Speaker:that that we won't have
Speaker:Republicans in all three
Speaker:branches of government and that
Speaker:eventually the old man is going
Speaker:to die.
Speaker:And there's nobody like Stephen
Speaker:Miller doesn't have any charisma
Speaker:and JD Vance doesn't have any
Speaker:charisma.
Speaker:And so they're going to have to hope that they've they've gamed
Speaker:the system enough that they will hold on to the levers of power,
Speaker:um, without without their charismatic TV star strongman.
Speaker:Um, yeah.
Speaker:And I, I can see that falling apart.
Speaker:I don't know that we have enough.
Speaker:Um, people on the other side prepared to pick up the pieces
Speaker:and fight as dirty for good as they have been fighting.
Speaker:Dirty for evil.
Speaker:On the other side, um, that's what I worry about.
Speaker:Can we get and, you know, more
Speaker:bernies more AOC's hu more Adam
Speaker:Schiff's, more, you know,
Speaker:Jasmine Crockett's these people
Speaker:that really are saying the right
Speaker:things.
Speaker:Can we get them into power and
Speaker:will they, um, will they undo
Speaker:this tremendous amount of damage
Speaker:that's happened?
Speaker:You know, I mean, I think that
Speaker:the only one of those people
Speaker:that you mentioned that I'd
Speaker:actually be okay with being in
Speaker:office would be Bernie Sanders,
Speaker:because he's the only legitimate
Speaker:one.
Speaker:Like, I think that the system is
Speaker:so captured, and I think that
Speaker:Donald Trump is a very effective
Speaker:distraction, but I think that
Speaker:it's far more nefarious than
Speaker:that.
Speaker:And I think that, frankly, both sides like the Democrats being
Speaker:ineffective right now, that's not an accident.
Speaker:You know, this is like the entire system has been so
Speaker:captured by corporate money that when a person like Donald Trump
Speaker:comes in, it's distracting from all of the other things.
Speaker:And the other things are our government has been is being
Speaker:legally bribed every single day by corporate money and has not
Speaker:been a democracy for years.
Speaker:Like, it's it's it's the problems run deeper than Trump,
Speaker:which is the thing.
Speaker:And that's where I think we really I don't really want to
Speaker:get too deep into it.
Speaker:But like I think we really blew
Speaker:it with Bernie Sanders in twenty
Speaker:sixteen.
Speaker:I think he would have won.
Speaker:I think he would have beat Trump.
Speaker:And I think things would be totally different right now.
Speaker:But, uh, but that's, you know, uh, maybe just, uh, me wishing
Speaker:for a different past, of course.
Speaker:But, um, but yeah, I think they they really blew it.
Speaker:But but yeah, here's hoping.
Speaker:I mean, it's certainly an interesting time to be alive.
Speaker:Isn't that like the Chinese curse?
Speaker:May you live in interesting times or something like that.
Speaker:May you live in interesting times.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I feel at times naive, too naive and too cynical and, uh,
Speaker:and don't know exactly where to where to come down on it.
Speaker:But, um, I basically agree with everything you said while
Speaker:keeping in the back of my head the hope that, you know the
Speaker:things will get better.
Speaker:You know, that I have to have that hope.
Speaker:I have to keep, um, trying to
Speaker:inspire joy in the people close
Speaker:to me.
Speaker:So that.
Speaker:Right, there's something still there.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, I think that in my mind, the best thing that you that
Speaker:that individuals can do at this point, you know, um, instead of
Speaker:going on Instagram and posting your, you know, um, whatever
Speaker:anti-Trump blah, blah, blah, whatever it is, you know, uh, I
Speaker:think you need to, like, go into the community around you and
Speaker:volunteer and help people in your community help out where
Speaker:you can make this, make the place around you better, you
Speaker:know, because that's all that you can do to really enact.
Speaker:And that actually does enact positive change.
Speaker:That's truly helping in a way
Speaker:more than calling your
Speaker:congressperson, more than all
Speaker:these other things that I feel
Speaker:like are just really
Speaker:distractions.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, you know, for the people who have gone, you know, who were
Speaker:really paranoid and they think, like, I need to have guns.
Speaker:Um, which I don't entirely disagree with, but I also think,
Speaker:you know, knowing the names of all of your neighbors is going
Speaker:to be a hundred times more effective than owning guns.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:If if things go sour all around
Speaker:you, like, like know like know
Speaker:your your people around you,
Speaker:like be figure out who needs
Speaker:help and help them if, uh, if
Speaker:that's if that's what's going
Speaker:on.
Speaker:I mean, I feel like that's part of the problem is we've really
Speaker:lost the sense of community here in the United States.
Speaker:I mean, maybe other places, but
Speaker:I think the United States in
Speaker:particular has really this idea
Speaker:of community.
Speaker:You know, how many people I
Speaker:don't I don't know a lot of my
Speaker:neighbors, a lot of my friends,
Speaker:most of my friends probably
Speaker:don't know a lot of their
Speaker:neighbors.
Speaker:I have one friend who knows all of his neighbors because he's
Speaker:that kind of person.
Speaker:But like, I just don't feel like
Speaker:there is the sense of
Speaker:togetherness in it because we're
Speaker:all on the phones and on the
Speaker:internet.
Speaker:So it's a I don't know.
Speaker:I don't know, um, but I really do think that finding community
Speaker:again is really important.
Speaker:And I love the idea of getting
Speaker:to know all your neighbors
Speaker:names.
Speaker:That'd be amazing.
Speaker:The cult of individuality, which I certainly, um, subscribed to
Speaker:as a person who deliberately changed their name in order to
Speaker:look more individual, um, is has been not great for America.
Speaker:Um, you know, we we you look at the the, you know, watch a
Speaker:Chinese dance routine or something and you're like, oh,
Speaker:those people have a very different way of approaching the
Speaker:world than than we do.
Speaker:You know, they.
Speaker:Yeah, they are willing to become they're part of the group.
Speaker:They don't need to stand out.
Speaker:And yeah, with, with the phones
Speaker:that that allows us to be
Speaker:insulated.
Speaker:We can be a single person
Speaker:trapped inside a single black
Speaker:rectangle.
Speaker:Um, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:And I think Covid did a lot to accelerate this, um, in a way
Speaker:that for sure.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Good times, good times.
Speaker:Um, I mean, honestly, you can if
Speaker:you can find joy in your own, in
Speaker:your own life, then I think
Speaker:you're doing well because you're
Speaker:only you.
Speaker:It's it's it's not what's happening.
Speaker:It's how you yourself are
Speaker:reacting to what's happening
Speaker:that's important.
Speaker:And I think that if you can find a way to say to yourself, I'm
Speaker:not going to have negative reactions to these things, I'm
Speaker:going to accept these things or not pay attention to these
Speaker:things, then I think that's the best thing that I think a lot of
Speaker:people can do, because it's bad vibes in America right now.
Speaker:It's not it's not good vibes.
Speaker:And I know that simplifies it, but I really would prefer to
Speaker:have some better vibes.
Speaker:That's just, you know.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's fun to seek out those
Speaker:good vibes, you know, find
Speaker:people that, in the face of all
Speaker:this are having a good time and
Speaker:figure out like, well, what are
Speaker:they doing?
Speaker:What are they how are they feeling?
Speaker:This um, I had pretty serious depression.
Speaker:Um, gosh, I guess it was leading
Speaker:into the, the pandemic and
Speaker:actually toward the end of the
Speaker:pandemic up till now, when
Speaker:things are.
Speaker:Continue to be objectively kind of terrible.
Speaker:I'm in remission from it, you know.
Speaker:And I'm on medication.
Speaker:I'm in therapy.
Speaker:But the, um, same same.
Speaker:But it's it's a it's paradoxical to me.
Speaker:Like.
Speaker:Like, shouldn't I feel the worst right now?
Speaker:Um, but I guess I'm happy that I'm not.
Speaker:So that I can think clearly and not just, you know, spend all
Speaker:day in bed looking at my phone.
Speaker:I can get out in the world.
Speaker:It's a vicious cycle, isn't it?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Mhm.
Speaker:Um, yeah.
Speaker:I've also suffered from the depression as well.
Speaker:Another other thing we have in common.
Speaker:I wonder if it's the name Jef
Speaker:that does it, or if it's all we
Speaker:should do a scientific study of
Speaker:some sort.
Speaker:I'm not sure what it would be,
Speaker:but, um, scientists could study
Speaker:what.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:The one F's.
Speaker:Um, that's another.
Speaker:That's a that's a movie name right there.
Speaker:We should start a band and call it the Jef Taylors.
Speaker:They would think it's like the Ramones.
Speaker:But no. This is really your names?
Speaker:No, it's really the Jef Taylor.
Speaker:I wonder if we could get one more person.
Speaker:Do you play any instruments?
Speaker:I don't I could probably fake
Speaker:being a, uh, uh, percussionist
Speaker:slash.
Speaker:Yeah, like tambourine or something.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Uh, lead vocalist.
Speaker:Yeah yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Perfect, perfect.
Speaker:You're in.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We're backing vocals.
Speaker:We need you.
Speaker:Yeah, we really need you.
Speaker:Because you're the only other
Speaker:Jef Taylor that I know right
Speaker:now.
Speaker:So we really need.
Speaker:We need you in the band.
Speaker:We can't be the Jef Taylor's without more.
Speaker:At least we need at least two Jef Taylor's to call ourselves
Speaker:the Jef Taylor's.
Speaker:Yeah, we need, we need we need a third.
Speaker:I saw a two piece the other day, and I was like, this is cool
Speaker:what they're doing.
Speaker:But actually I've seen two
Speaker:opening bands that were two
Speaker:pieces recently and I thought,
Speaker:this is great, but like name the
Speaker:super successful famous two
Speaker:piece band because, um, you
Speaker:really are missing out on a a
Speaker:chunk.
Speaker:Like for a rock band, like you could be a duo, you can be Simon
Speaker:and Garfunkel, but like one guy playing drums and one person
Speaker:playing the black keys.
Speaker:Black keys, the white stripes.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Those are two big ones.
Speaker:Those are.
Speaker:Those are good.
Speaker:I saw the tune-yards.
Speaker:I don't know if you remember them.
Speaker:Um, but that's a two piece as well.
Speaker:And she does a lot of looping and stuff.
Speaker:But but it actually reminded me when, when you were talking
Speaker:about, like, finding pieces of joy in this dark time, it was
Speaker:actually like, it made me think that, like, because at this
Speaker:concert, like, it was a very it was a wonderful concert.
Speaker:It was very like small venue and
Speaker:like everybody was very much
Speaker:like into it and very happy to
Speaker:be there.
Speaker:And the performers seem very happy to be there.
Speaker:And it was almost like it was
Speaker:this joyful moment in the time
Speaker:of darkness.
Speaker:But it was like possibly more
Speaker:joyful in the time of darkness,
Speaker:because we're in a time of
Speaker:darkness, and it's like a relief
Speaker:to be in a place with happy
Speaker:people, with happy music and
Speaker:people dancing and yada yada
Speaker:yada.
Speaker:Um, for sure, for sure, you know what I mean?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, uh, I kind of hate going to see live music now because I'm
Speaker:old and I don't want to stand for three hours.
Speaker:But I've been to a bunch of shows in the last couple of
Speaker:years, and while I'm there, I'm like, look at this.
Speaker:I'm in a room with five hundred people that are all here for the
Speaker:same purpose, you know, and I don't go to church, so this is
Speaker:the closest I'm going to get.
Speaker:And this feels great.
Speaker:And every once in a while it's a really good show.
Speaker:Like, uh, you know, the band called death?
Speaker:Yes, I've heard of them.
Speaker:Sounds like.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Uplifting.
Speaker:A a punk band that recorded a an
Speaker:album in nineteen seventy four
Speaker:that disappeared.
Speaker:And then somebody found it and
Speaker:they made a documentary about
Speaker:it.
Speaker:And anyway, the survivors toured.
Speaker:Oh, was it called was it called a band called death?
Speaker:That was the name of the documentary.
Speaker:Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So there, there show.
Speaker:Incredible.
Speaker:Like like people are so happy.
Speaker:Uh, there's a band called the church of the Cosmic Skull.
Speaker:They're a British, um, sort of stoner rock adjacent band.
Speaker:And and their show was incredible.
Speaker:It just like felt so great to be in that room.
Speaker:So every once in a while there'll be a thing like that
Speaker:where, um, where I go to a show and there's a a very special
Speaker:vibe in the room and that feels.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That that feels right, you know.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And we gotta, we gotta grab them as tight as we can for those
Speaker:little moments these days.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, uh, Jef Taylor, the last question I usually ask people is
Speaker:is a tricky one.
Speaker:I'm gonna warn you.
Speaker:Uh, what do you believe happens when we die?
Speaker:I guess is the word that we're looking for.
Speaker:What do you think is the.
Speaker:Is there a next thing?
Speaker:What do you.
Speaker:Where are you at?
Speaker:You said you didn't.
Speaker:You're not religious, but do you have any, uh, any beliefs in
Speaker:that realm at all?
Speaker:I think my answer is pretty boring.
Speaker:Um, it's kind of a nobody's answer is boring.
Speaker:Nobody's answer is boring.
Speaker:Go ahead.
Speaker:Maybe a stock atheist answer,
Speaker:which is, you know, however you
Speaker:felt before you were born, is
Speaker:how you're going to feel after
Speaker:you die.
Speaker:Um, I'm not afraid of of death.
Speaker:I think it's just sort of.
Speaker:You close the door and the
Speaker:lights go out, and you're not
Speaker:there anymore.
Speaker:I'm not worried about it.
Speaker:I think consciousness is entirely, um, something that are
Speaker:a wonderful illusion that our brains make, or a wonderful
Speaker:illusion that the universe makes in order to experience itself.
Speaker:And and, uh, and that's great, but it only lasts eighty to one
Speaker:hundred and twenty years.
Speaker:And I don't think there's anything after except for the
Speaker:other people that are born and living their lives.
Speaker:Huh?
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:I mean, it's not a boring answer.
Speaker:I, I, uh, as a person who doesn't want to believe that
Speaker:hate it, but I think that it's great that it's hateable.
Speaker:I get it.
Speaker:You're wrong, Jef Taylor.
Speaker:You're wrong.
Speaker:You're wrong about death.
Speaker:Um, well, Jef Taylor, uh, thank
Speaker:you so much for coming on the
Speaker:podcast.
Speaker:This was a true pleasure.
Speaker:Uh, it's funny that, like, we
Speaker:seem to have a nice dynamic
Speaker:because we have the same name
Speaker:and and the similarities of the
Speaker:things that have happened in our
Speaker:lives.
Speaker:It's kind of kind of strange.
Speaker:It's not entirely strange
Speaker:because like, if we're both, as
Speaker:I said, pretentious enough to
Speaker:take the f off of our name,
Speaker:then, you know, the art school
Speaker:thing, I think kind of fits in
Speaker:with that and so forth and so
Speaker:on.
Speaker:But, um, but still, it is it's
Speaker:strange because, as I said
Speaker:earlier, like, you know, your
Speaker:name is such an intimate part of
Speaker:who you are, and it's so strange
Speaker:to like, you know, know that you
Speaker:are living your life and
Speaker:identifying yourself with the
Speaker:exact same two words that I'm
Speaker:identifying myself with, if that
Speaker:makes sense.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's, uh, it is a weird thing.
Speaker:And I'm looking forward to, uh, the convention and or the band
Speaker:when you and you get.
Speaker:Yeah, I've got to get that.
Speaker:I've got to get those together.
Speaker:The Jef Taylor's and the Jef, Jef, Jef convention.
Speaker:That's.
Speaker:Those are some great ideas.
Speaker:I could probably.
Speaker:Yeah, maybe next year we'll look
Speaker:for twenty twenty six or twenty
Speaker:twenty seven.
Speaker:Maybe we'll start that.
Speaker:Um, do you have anything you
Speaker:want to promote while you're on
Speaker:here?
Speaker:I go by, uh, Urban Nature Walk or Swamp Hobbit, depending on
Speaker:the social media site.
Speaker:Um, I'm on, on YouTube as Herb
Speaker:Pan Erbb Pan, which is the last
Speaker:sort of remnant of the urban
Speaker:pantheist.
Speaker:Also blue sky in the same herb pan.
Speaker:So if you want to see toy cars smash into one another, or if
Speaker:you want to see me talk about mushrooms or other living
Speaker:things, those are the spots.
Speaker:It's not hard to find me.
Speaker:I'll put them all in the show
Speaker:notes as well, just in case
Speaker:people didn't, uh, didn't get
Speaker:that.
Speaker:Um, so, Jef Taylor, it was a pleasure to meet you.
Speaker:Thanks for coming on the podcast.
Speaker:Jef Taylor, it was a pleasure being with you.
Speaker:Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:Uh, keep in touch, sir.
Speaker:I'll follow you on all the
Speaker:things and take care of
Speaker:yourself, man.
Speaker:You too.
Speaker:And that was Jef Taylor.
Speaker:And I'm also Jef Taylor.
Speaker:And that probably is plenty of Jef Taylor's for one episode.
Speaker:So thank you for listening.
Speaker:If you've listened this far,
Speaker:please like, rate, subscribe and
Speaker:review.
Speaker:You gotta like, rate, subscribe and review.
Speaker:You gotta got like rate, subscribe and review.
Speaker:You got like rate, subscribe and review.
Speaker:You got to like rate, subscribe and review.
Speaker:Something like that.
Speaker:I'm working on it.
Speaker:I think it's going to be a hit for the Jef Taylors.
Speaker:You can follow the podcast on Instagram at Jef Pod, and you
Speaker:can follow the podcast on Facebook at facebook.com pod.
Speaker:And you can email the podcast.
Speaker:You can call the podcast, look
Speaker:at the show notes, you'll see
Speaker:them.
Speaker:It's all there.
Speaker:Honestly, I don't know the full list in this long.
Speaker:Do people like, do people actually listen this long?
Speaker:Here's what I want you to do this week.
Speaker:If you're listening this long,
Speaker:send me an email at gmail.com
Speaker:and just tell me something to
Speaker:prove.
Speaker:Well, just sending the email would be enough.
Speaker:So yeah, if you've listened this far, just send me an email and
Speaker:you'll get a prize.
Speaker:Uh. Another prize.
Speaker:I've lost track of the other
Speaker:prizes because, like, there's no
Speaker:entrance.
Speaker:I had one entrance, actually, for the photo contest, but the
Speaker:the rules for the photo contest were that you send me a photo
Speaker:that has something to do with the podcast or your engagement
Speaker:with the podcast.
Speaker:And my nephew, who's a wonderful man.
Speaker:Uh, you know, love him to death,
Speaker:but he just sent me a picture
Speaker:of, like, his cross country
Speaker:team.
Speaker:And I did ask him, like, what
Speaker:does this have to do with the
Speaker:podcast?
Speaker:And there was no response.
Speaker:So, I mean, you're on the cusp of a prize there.
Speaker:Own.
Speaker:But, uh, you're not jumping off the old diving board.
Speaker:Is that a good metaphor?
Speaker:Um. Slap happy?
Speaker:I didn't mention this in the intro, but I am no longer sick.
Speaker:It's knocking on wood.
Speaker:It was about two weeks of this
Speaker:cold, and it was about as sick
Speaker:as I've been in quite a few
Speaker:years.
Speaker:Nobody likes being sick.
Speaker:It's horrible.
Speaker:We all know this.
Speaker:I'm a person that leads towards, uh.
Speaker:I struggle with negativity.
Speaker:I've always struggled with negativity.
Speaker:This is something I have been working on, but I'm aware of it.
Speaker:So awareness is the first step towards something or other.
Speaker:Anyway, my negativity and my
Speaker:anxiety really got got their
Speaker:hooks into me during my
Speaker:sickness.
Speaker:And uh, yeah, I started grabbing
Speaker:for things, you know, um, like,
Speaker:not literally, but like
Speaker:symbolically, right?
Speaker:I was trying to hold on to something, trying to hold on to
Speaker:things, looking for something to hold on to.
Speaker:And it wasn't until I spoke to a
Speaker:dear friend of mine who
Speaker:basically said, in so many
Speaker:words, there's nothing to hang
Speaker:on to.
Speaker:There's never been anything to hang on to.
Speaker:There's just this moment.
Speaker:There's just this moment.
Speaker:Very good.
Speaker:Geoffrey.
